In this episode I will challenge some of the things often heard in the 12 step fellowships today. What is the difference between being proud of my fellowship of choice and recovery type elitism. Listen and decide for yourself.
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Episode 7 AA vs NA [73:39m]:
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on Thursday, October 4th, 2007 at 11:16 pm and is filed under Solo Casts.
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October 6th, 2007 at 12:42 am
First five minutes…I am really bored….you get two more minutes to entertain me or you’re history. That’s it, this sux.
October 6th, 2007 at 2:27 am
Now Wayne smile
I read the title and new I was gunna comment.
I am not even half way through and I was smiling a knowing smile and listening to the truth of the battleground based in the ego, feeding dis-ease. I very rarely go down the male female role but I have to say the VS thing runs deeper then the AA NA thing. It’s in every single meeting in every single fellowship doctrine. I have one word TRIBAL men make and build tribes women join a particular tribe and when the tribal structure is threatened the men fight like pure tigers to retain the status quo.
I am female and as much as I hate it, I will always be drawn, to join where the physical strength is found. That’s why spiritual and focussed recovery meetings are small and the tribal beating of drum meetings are big.
I know it seems like a simplification, but nature is powerful and the world is still flat.
I have to be honest here and admit defeat I don’t know why alcoholic/addicts create separation. It is separation that creates all pain and it cannot be more clear in the book, if read with an open mind that we are all one, but hey we are dealing with addicts/alcoholics and well, I know, I am sometimes blind to the truth of love but I am learning as the fellowship is learning as we are all learning.
There is a shift, there is a tipping point and it’s found in the wider community also and the great healer is time and change. We live here and now. We live in this moment and we are dealing with the natural laws of the past catching up. We can make the change we can carry the message. Look to the solution as it tells us in the book.
You and I know that positive thought, creates positive action, creates positive reality.
I do love your pitch and the approach and use of your language. You throw the problems into this space and shine the light upon them and show me solutions. We know how to behave, so we need to think before we decide and behave in a way that reflects our understanding and watch the magic happen.
I am that I am and we are all here together and to deny, is to create that what we deny will chase to the gates of insanity and death so keep showing us who we are so we can seek to change.
Big love, keep the faith
Space
October 7th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
keep it up. i like what you’re talking about. i don’t always agree, have to admit that, but i like the topics you’ve been choosing. someone needs to bring up the underlying issues that run through the fellowships. thanks for doing this.
October 13th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Hi Bruce,
I listened to the podcast, and you made some good observations. There were two things that crossed my mind.
First was that groups can vary significantly from area to area. This means that one area may be much more effective in carrying a message than another. In my case, I moved from a community to another that is located aproximately 150 miles away, and the message seems quite different, and from my point of view, I would go as far as to say that these people have it backwards, (sorry for being so vague, but I feel I need be so that I don’t harm anyone by my word)
Second, if it were me, I would say that the disagreements amoung the fellowships is outside the scope of the message at hand, and therefore should not be discussed at a group. For example, in my opinion, if a group conscience gave the chairman the function, the chairman should interrupt someone commenting about an outside issue, from remarks about other fellowships and how they practice their program, to other things like the Iraq war and how well the mayor of the town is doing.
Anyway, Im sure there were other things as well, but I cannot think of them. If you want, reply to the email listed above if you have any comments.
Finally, I wanted to remark that I found this site on the homepage at 12stepspace.com
October 15th, 2007 at 12:58 am
Can I just say that each meeting serves a purpose for the the people that attend not the other way round. Bill W would cringe at the idea that AA was not a safe place to say whatever was in your life at that moment.
Organised religion has not worked for many poeple and neither would organised AA work for all alchys. Meetings are a place to heal at the pace relative to our dis-ease.
As you have been given the gift to find your own way so have they.
Love is unconditional and we are all here because we could not do it out there. So lets keep the focus on ourselves and let the children play for they will grow in spite of what you think, feel or say.
Start a meeting that suits you.
Have ya ever thought that you where sent to that location to add something rather than take down what is already there?
in love and fellowship
SPACE
October 16th, 2007 at 2:05 am
Thank you so much for that podcast !!!!!
I first came into the fellowship of AA in 1982 at the age of 14, through Galveston, Texas where I was born and raised. I was told I didn’t belong there because my problem was mainly drugs although drinking always went along with my drug intaking and I abused it just as much as I did drugs and especially if there were no drugs obtainable at the time or I did not have the money and alcohol was always the “cheap high”. I was told by AA members at that time from old timers in that fellowship stuff like “I spilled more on my tie then you ever drank”, blah blah blah. A lot of us at that time got this message. I was at the time the youngest member in the area.
I was part of NA when it was just forming in Galveston Texas. I felt I didn’t belong there either and was also told as much because at that time I had yet to do drugs intravenously. I had never been to jail or prison at that time, nor was I a biker or bandito, a whore from the streets etc, etc. Of course as my addiction progressed I did get to do all those things and become all those things. I ended up a biker bitch, in jails, using IV drugs and becoming strung out, supporting my habit through sex like many of us did both male and females.
I have been on both sides of both fellowships. The thing I did not feel comfortable with was the religious references in AA and in their literature. The way I was treated after the fact came out that I was a “dope fiend”, which is how many in AA referred to me and others at that time. I did not like NA because of it’s arrogant and cocky attitude as well at that time.
I have through the years stayed with NA because I related to the message of NA better and to their literature the most and best felt I could help the still suffering women in that fellowship more. I can say though I am very grateful to the fellowship of AA and for Dr. Bob, Bill W and Jimmy K. I do not bad mouth either fellowship and tell others to do whatever works best for them. I share only my experience, strength and hope in what I have been through. I have had to put both fellowships on my inventory and apply the principles of Recovery to all areas of my life.
I would like to blame my 25 plus years of coming in and out of addiction and recovery do to the way I was treated in the beginning in both fellowships but I know that is BULLSHIT today. The bottom line for me was I just wasn’t done using yet.
Your Friend and Sister In Recovery.
Hugs,
Karen C.
fatmamacatkaren
11/20/02
Addict In Austin, Texas
Homegroup Recovery South
CTANA
November 30th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
there are a number of treatment centers in my area and there’s a real solid divide. I work in treatment, and there is a strong bias against NA, my fellowship of choice. for the sake of majority rule, I adopted a “whatever works” attitude, however in the beginning I fell in with the closeminded, better than attitudes of some of the militant purists. today I have a number of friends and network members in both fellowships, and I really liked what you said about each fellowship being different sects. I don’t know who you are that gives you license to discuss this stuff, but being that you do (and you do it well), I enjoyed my first recovery podcast experience and I will certainly be returning. thanks for being honest and real and sharing your experience.
December 1st, 2007 at 10:31 am
i was introduced to many meetings in different fellowships when I was in military rehab in san diego. Being introduced to AA and NA programs in such a fast paced recovery area was great. they shipped us nearly every night to a different meeting all around the SD area.
years and years later when i really got clean for the first time, no rehab, just help from AA i chose to go to AA and work that fellowships program. I found that people were more serious about recovery in AA around here. In NA there was the constant stream of the same people meeting after meeting picking up the white key tags. not much long term cleaness at all compared to the AA meetings around here. my observation and why i worked AA program and steps even though I am an addict and can’t discuss my addiction to drugs in most of the meetings i went to.
g
December 5th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
I would have loved to listen to the NA vs. AA comments but the rambling at the beginning was too much to take so I had to cut it off.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:15 am
Thank you for your podcast. I am enjoy it so much. I am an addicts mother and an addicts daughter - therefore in Al-Anon! Not many podcasts to listen to for the alanon group so I started listening to yours. I love you!
You DO Rock! Thanks for the insight, opinions and little snicker that you give me from time to time. I appreciate your shoot-straight-from-the-hip style and appreciate that you provide topics that aren’t covered in meetings. AA vs NA was great - my son and I recently talked about how so many ‘denominations’ are forming and various interpretations of the Big Book are coming out!! I have passed your podcast on to him as he would relate a lot to your views. I am sure it will be a popular one for downloads.
I am searching for my own sponsor in Alanon (and a homegroup for that matter). Appreciate any comments you have for me too! Hope my son finds a sponsor like you!! God bless you - Thank you!!
You are touching people from your apartment with the Franklin at your
feet!
January 28th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Hello!
Nice site
Bye
March 23rd, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Shoemaker stick to thy last! There’s no point in going to a bakers to try to buy a cabbage.!