Episode 3 Love vs Lust
In this the third episode of The Recovery Podcast I will be exploring some of my thoughts and beliefs surrounding sex in recovery. From a secular interpretation of the Book of Genesis and the story of Adam and Eve to busting the stigma of the dreaded 13th step follow me as I break the Mindset once again. Challenging you the listener to draw your own conclusions and set down old ideas about human sexuality.
A return to innocence. Nothing brings out strong opinions like this topic.
(2 votes, average: 4.5 out of 5)
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September 11th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
AA’s Opinion:
(individual opinion, is too often scewed and screwed on this topic; it is pretty damn clear that Honesty is Sacred if you ask me)
Big Book Says (Step 4):
“suppose we fall short of the chosen ideal and stumble? [assumes our chosen intuitive ideal is at a higher standard than our previous standards, which probably needed an ‘overhaul’, page 68] Does this mean we are going to get drunk? Some people tell us so. But this is only a half-truth. It depends on us and our motives. If we are sorry for what we have done [assumes we have fallen short, made error, caused harm through inappropriate sex conduct], and have the honest desire to let God take us to better things [Trust God, not sex drive, not lust], we believe we will be forgiven and will have learned our lesson. If we are not sorry, and our conduct [inappropriate, dishonest sex conduct, taking selfish advantage of people] continues to harm others, we are quite sure to drink. We are not theorizing. These are facts out of our experience (read that last line again, causes relapse, and nothing causes more relapses from my experience).”
Big Book, Page 70, 2nd paragraph. (pretty clear, need I write more???)
Matt J.
Sobriety Date: 11/07/2001
September 12th, 2007 at 8:31 am
Sex in Sobriety- hum lots of people dont like to talk about this subject. But ya know before i decided to change my life sex was like alcohol in my body…. I’m very addicted person… First yr sober hum
“God” sent me a man (mind ya I was a married woman at the time) eight months sober I was prebnant trying to hide it so I could get my devorce final huuuuuuuuu so insane ….Of course it was suggested not to get into relationship for @ least a yr. but remember god sent me this man 
Yeah I made mistake 1st by not takin suggestions from wise, 2nd thinkin I know what God’s will ws 4 me, 3rd being selfish, ya know what though in the midst of all this I did learn how to be selfless, patient, and obedient to self and respect others in all areas of their life.. And the amazing thing is I did not drink through all this, that 1st yr showed me that i can deal w/ anything and everything that life has put in front of me, without alcohol or any out side issues… I faithfully hang tight to step 3 and 11. I dont go to many f2f mtgns, so glad to have found this site. Anywho take care & God bless…Breezy
September 12th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
So, where do I begin. The Basic Text of Narcotics Anonymous states that all major life altering decisions, such as a relationship, divorce, job loss or gain, should be run by a sponsor. This is where things get misconstrued. When I got out of treatment in July of 05 I came to NA. Needless to say I jumped into a relationship almost immediately. In September I started seeing this guy. With no real clean time on my part (my clean date to day is 10-15-05), this relationship was pure insanity. I am eternally grateful for him being a part of my life for without him I wouldn’t have my 2nd, and last, son. But I learned from this experience. Dating at anytime in your life is hard work and can be painful. Doing it with no clean time is not something I would recommend. Ecspecially if you are not honest with your partner about using. I have been relationship free for 1 1/2 years. It has been amazing I am on a quest to find myself. I learn more every day. I have started dating recently, which is entirely new to me. Dating and not immediatly jumping into the sack and moving in with the guy is so abnormal for me. Its cool getting to know other people in recovery and finding common bonds. Anyways, wow I said alot, So sex in recovery is gr8 if you acknowledge your intentions and set boundaries, o yeah and PRAY!!!!!
Amanda C
10-15-05
September 13th, 2007 at 9:09 pm
I’m new in recovery and I started to have a problem with this issue. I haven’t heard anyone talk about this issue so I’m glad for all the input here. Thanks!!!
September 16th, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Thank you so much for the podcast. I don’t have an ipod, guess I need to get into the new era, but I download them and burn them to listen to in my car. I love your approach to the subject, but mostly because you are so honest that it’s your opinions, your views and your thoughts. I respect that. I also respect that while you are a straight man, you don’t have a problem putting the issue to gays either. I look forward to listening to more of what you have say. And if you ever need a gay view, hit me up.
September 22nd, 2007 at 3:17 pm
I waited a year and a half. However, my year and a half did not make my guy’s 60 days ok. I could justify that he was “different”, but if I’m not unique and special, how could he be? Did he relapse? yes. Did I? no. The relationship is over and I am now dating a man with more time than I.
For me, two people have to be completely honest in their program, WORKING A PROGRAM, and honestly communicating about everything going on. So, I suppose time will tell for me.
September 22nd, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Hi my name is frank i am 47 yrs old 70 days sober i fell for a 17 yr old here in boston . she got1 yr sober. My sponser explained that i want her to change the way i feel. i stop going to her meeting i am working on a relationship with god. ihave been going to aa for 20 yrs and the most i ever had was 1yr. i keep rlapasing because of relationships it has become very serious in my recovery and it sucks i am human were doed one cross theline? i just stay celebant and keep praying yet it is very very hard not to think about sex and desires.
September 23rd, 2007 at 4:22 am
Hey Frank
My name is Cindy i am based int he UK and I am here for ya if ya need to speak to a woman about how ya feeling I don’t have any answers but I am here to listen and help with it if I can.
relationships are never easy and seem to be harder if we are addicts alcoholics.
life is beautiful and they do say stick around till the miracle happens and thats universal for us all.
your amazing and dont forget it one day sober is worth many days using and it will happen for you when you get past this stumbling block.
your higher power loves you without condition and waits patiently for you to return home
September 26th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Well here goes
I love the concept of this blog stuff and big love to all my fellow travelers who stumble in.
Some ramblings for ya
Love is still a new venture for this alchy, addict, everything lol and I really do believe I can love and will love and I would even go as far to say I am love. That’s how life is meant to be.
I read that all the things that cause us pain are related to when we turn away from each other and it hit a cord. I am not saying that sexual relationships early on are the best way to find your centre and be confident to love openly and honestly but I do believe that pain is the touchstone of spiritual growth and boy if wanna bit a pain get into a relationship before you have worked with a sponsor and learned to love yaself.
I speak form experience, I was on the receiving end of a so-called predator and I have to say I am so very grateful to him for seeing through my disease and loving what healed part of me there was. He was gentle and kind and although we both new we where heading for a crash we loved each other the best we could until it was to painful and unhealed qualities surfaced to destroy what we had attempted to build.
It was beautiful and it gave me a glimpse of what love can be and how two people can add to each other’s experience and be more than the sum of their parts.
I came through and I am more vulnerable and I am filled with beautiful memories and some not so but in amongst the pain there is the joy of loving and the reality of lust and how the two are very different but equally part of the journey to understanding what it is to be a human being.
I am filled with awe for my new reality. I know my truth is my truth in this moment in this very blissful moment of life that is all we actually have so love or no love lust or no lust we are human and we born to love each other its just that we love certain individuals with more intensity than others and those we choose to call partners, husbands and lovers.
take care of you,… for you are the only person you have to live with for the rest of your life and maybe fall in love and lust with yourself for you are life itself and thats a healthy start and can be soooooo much fun
Space
September 26th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
daily prayers…
our daily prayer…
October 13th, 2007 at 10:03 am
Well the comments were almost as interesting as the podcast…
Indeed masturbation is rarely or never talked about…(in any positive way) And it’s an issue for everyone of us dudes… I walked around for years confused about it… I wish somebody had told me early on that it’s no big deal… I had to figure it out myself… Or actually I finally did read that in a book… Somebody finally got the balls to say it…
Interesting take on the 13th step… 12 plus 1 = 13. I seemed to have walked into a bit of that drama myself… Or guess I went backwards… I called this girl that has a lot of dry time… Doing so seemed to spark a bit of gossip or something weird… I backed up off of it… Set my cup down.
I posted about it over at myspace groups… And joked a bit about 13 stepping… I got no replies for quite awhile… I thought that was strange… Those guys LOVE to get controversial… Hmmm?
That was the most interesting one yet for sure bruce… Went 2 times around…And your views on the Bible and Christiananity are always entertaining…
November 11th, 2007 at 10:06 am
just for today 11-30
it talks about sharing the real me.
and you for that matter.
i have been around a long time in the rooms, there are alot of theorys about relationships, ranging from if ya wanna learn to practice spiritual principles get into a relationship! to dont do it all you are doing is trying to fix the insides with outside stuff.
it is mandatory in my spirit to have a sponsor, to run major decisions by him/her.
we come to the rooms as broken spirits, healing must take place or we will continue to cause chaos and destruction in our lives.
i got clean in 01 and i know i have made many mistakes regarding this issue and all it has done is left me with more pain and a larger list of amends.
currently i am involved with my life partner who has 18 years clean.
our relationship still require communication trust and most of all honesty.
and as much as i love her she is still from venus and i am from mars we are wired different and i always try to remember she is a spirit as well as a human.
life and recovery is meant to be lived loved and enjoyed if you bring a whole person to the table it will still require work,
and always remember ” if the grass is always greener over there WATER YOUR LAWN” !!
Namaste’
Kev
November 30th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
ok, so the bottom line is that we should try not to hurt anybody with our sexual conduct. the truth is that sex by definition is a selfish act (the instinct to propagate the species), but being social animals we have needs. food, shelter, and community are the things we require as a species to survive. the problem with our conduct, (sexual or otherwise), is that we can seperate ourselves from those things. like the phrase many of us have said, ‘if i didn’t need my body for transportation i would have killed it long ago’, referring to our propensity for self-destructive behaviours. coming up on 8 yrs myself, i’ve delved into a couple of, um, let’s call them interludes. the problem for me has been my belief that our only real sin is interfering with someone elses’ recovery. this philosophy conflicts with one of my biggest fears. my fear of being alone. and then again, the only thing that scares me more than the idea of being single for the rest of my life is being with the wrong person for the rest of my life. and besides, i came in with my picker broke…it’s still broke, but i’m not. i’m gonna hit the button now, or i’ll end up editing and rewriting, or worse…delete. good luck to all, and God bless.
March 27th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
We are supposed to find an ideal. The one thing that always stands out to this ol drunk is do unto others as I would have them do to me. Would I like to be lied to just so you can get laid? My old motto ” if it feels go do it ” is one of the old ideas that was supposed to go. One thing that helps this alkie is the idea that if I don’t want someone to know about whatever activity I’m about to engage in then it is probably not a good idea. In early recovery I was told the three m’s , Meetings , meditation and masturbation are the best idea to keep the focus on I, Self, and Me, the ism of our disease.
Thanks ,
June 27th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Hey Bruce Wayne AKA Batman, which is a perfect name for when discussing nighttime activity, such as beautifull creative sexual activity. Being a woman who has always had a MAJOR sex drive and been driven to have orgasm because I felt this was the only reason to stay alive at times. In recovery I have found the love of my higher power is equal and greater than an orgasm and thank God because now that I did my last 4th step my sex drive is gone. I don’t know if it needs to be reborn or if it is in denial or if sex is no longer an option for me. My last husband only wanted to have sex with me when I had no desire what-so-ever. What is up with that? I know I don’t enjoy sex unless I am turned on. If I date again, now that I am divorced what if sex comes up? I am feeling lonely. I recognize loneliness. I know when I go to long without manly company I become so needy that you men run from me. I am having a difficult time understanding where I am in regard to male companionship. Being a co-dependent also, one date and I am emotionally involved. So it is hard to date and let go for me. I am counting on my higher power to match me with a man. I would love to encounter a man who would get into Loving the whole body and honoring every part from head to toe. Like a year long foreplay. I have 13th stepped men in meetings and I have been 13th stepped. I now go to meetings doing selftalk the whole way thru. When I see men I am attracted to I tell myself they are my brothers in recovery. I love alcoholics and married two. Two divorces later, I am trying to go to meetings for me, not for dating. On the subject of masturbation, my saying is “if you can’t make love to yourself who can you make love to?” I do love the Big Book spots on sex and I would love to discuss them more in depth. I am certain we need to read between the lines and then some. There is a bunch of information in the few words. I hunger also, on such a subject in meetings. I have brought it up myself, only to be met with dead silence after I shared. I often come into meetings and my turn to read, has been in the sex part so many times. I actually found a speaker tape where he discusses Sex. the name of the tape is “Fear and Sex”. It came out of California. The speaker is certain, all his issues about sex, are fear of intimacy. Like the 12×12 says, that maybe “we are afraid we are gonna lose something we allready have, or else we are afraid we are not going to get something we want. Intimacy to me is commitment. Commitment means to me I can’t use running away as a solving problem option.